演講MP3+雙語(yǔ)文稿:去醫(yī)院看病時(shí)，這4個(gè)問(wèn)題，一定要問(wèn)醫(yī)生

聽(tīng)力課堂TED音頻欄目主要包括TED演講的音頻MP3及中英雙語(yǔ)文稿，供各位英語(yǔ)愛(ài)好者學(xué)習(xí)使用。本文主要內(nèi)容為演講MP3+雙語(yǔ)文稿:去醫(yī)院看病時(shí)，這4個(gè)問(wèn)題，一定要問(wèn)醫(yī)生，希望你會(huì)喜歡！

【演講人及介紹】Christer Mjaset

醫(yī)學(xué)博士，神經(jīng)外科醫(yī)生，作家，專欄作家和講師，目前是哈佛大學(xué)公共衛(wèi)生學(xué)院Harkness研究員，研究基于價(jià)值的醫(yī)療保健模式

【演講主題】你應(yīng)該經(jīng)常問(wèn)醫(yī)生的四個(gè)問(wèn)題

【演講文稿-中英文】

翻譯者 Nan Yang

校對(duì)人員 psjmz mz

00:13

I am a neurosurgeon, and I'm here to tell you today that people like me need your help. And in a few moments, I will tell you how.

我是一個(gè)神經(jīng)外科醫(yī)生， 我今天要告訴你們， 像我一樣的人需要你們的幫助。 過(guò)一會(huì)兒，我會(huì)告訴你們?cè)趺醋觥?/p>

00:22

But first, let me start off by telling you about a patient of mine. This was a woman in her 50s, she was in generally good shape, but she had been in and out of hospital a few times due to curative breast cancer treatment. Now she had gotten a prolapse from a cervical disc, giving her radiating pain of a tense kind, out into the right arm. Looking at her MRI before the consultation, I decided to suggest an operation. Now, neck operations like these are standardized, and they're quick. But they carry a certain risk. You make an incision right here, and you dissect carefully past the trachea, the esophagus, and you try not to cut into the internal carotid artery.

但是首先，讓我跟你們 聊一下我的一個(gè)病人。 她是一個(gè)五十多歲的女士， 身材基本上保持的不錯(cuò)， 但是她已經(jīng)為了根治乳腺癌 多次進(jìn)出醫(yī)院。 現(xiàn)在她的頸椎間盤(pán)有脫落， 帶給她放射性的疼痛， 一直影響到她的右胳膊。 在診療之前我看了 她的核磁共振成像， 我決定建議她進(jìn)行手術(shù)。 現(xiàn)在這種脖頸手術(shù)已經(jīng) 很標(biāo)準(zhǔn)化，而且手術(shù)時(shí)間短， 但是仍帶有一定的風(fēng)險(xiǎn)。 要在這里做一個(gè)切口， 然后剖開(kāi)，小心的穿過(guò)氣管， 食道， 還要盡量不切到頸內(nèi)動(dòng)脈。

01:09

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

01:10

Then you bring in the microscope, and you carefully remove the disc and the prolapse in the nerve root canal, without damaging the cord and the nerve root lying only millimeters underneath. The worst case scenario is the damage to the cord, which can result in paralysis from the neck down.

然后要利用顯微鏡， 仔細(xì)的在神經(jīng)根管中 移除間盤(pán)和脫垂， 同時(shí)不能損害 在下方僅幾毫米處的 索狀組織和神經(jīng)根。 最壞的情況就是損害了索狀組織， 會(huì)導(dǎo)致頸部以下的癱瘓。

01:29

Explaining this to the patient, she fell silent. And after a few moments, she uttered a few very decisive words for me and for her. "Doctor, is this really necessary?"

我把這些解釋給病人時(shí)，她沉默了。 然后過(guò)了一會(huì)， 她對(duì)我和她自己說(shuō)了 一句非常果斷的話。 ”醫(yī)生，這個(gè)手術(shù)真的必要嗎？“

01:42

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

01:44

And you know what I realized, right there and then? It was not. In fact, when I get patients like this woman, I tend to advise not to operate. So what made me do it this time? Well, you see, this prolapse was so delicate, I could practically see myself pulling it out of the nerve root canal before she entered the consultation room. I have to admit it, I wanted to operate on her. I'd love to operate on her. Operating, after all, is the most fun part of my job.

你們知道那一刻我意識(shí)到什么嗎？ 這個(gè)手術(shù)并不必要。 實(shí)際上，當(dāng)我面對(duì) 像這位女士的病人時(shí)， 我傾向于建議她們不做手術(shù)。 為什么我這次卻建議她做呢？ 是這樣的， 這個(gè)脫垂非常精巧， 在她進(jìn)入診療室之前， 我?guī)缀蹩梢钥匆?jiàn)自己 正在把脫垂從神經(jīng)根管中取出。 我不得不承認(rèn)， 我想給她做手術(shù)。 我非常希望給她做手術(shù)。 畢竟，手術(shù)是我工作中 最有趣的部分。

02:19

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

02:23

I think you can relate to this feeling. My architect neighbor says he loves to just sit and draw and design houses. He'd rather do that all day than talk to the client paying for the house that might even give him restrictions on what to do. But like every architect, every surgeon needs to look their patient in the eye and together with the patient, they need to decide on what is best for the person having the operation. And that might sound easy. But let's look at some statistics.

我覺(jué)得你們可以體會(huì)這種感受。 我的建筑師鄰居 說(shuō)他就喜歡坐在那 設(shè)計(jì)房子。 寧可坐在那一天， 他也不想跟客戶討論 付款買(mǎi)房的事項(xiàng)， 這甚至有可能限制他的設(shè)計(jì)。 就像每個(gè)建筑師， 每個(gè)外科醫(yī)生需要 看著病人的眼睛， 然后跟病人一起 決定對(duì)病人來(lái)說(shuō)最好的手術(shù)。 這個(gè)聽(tīng)起來(lái)可能簡(jiǎn)單。 但是讓我們來(lái)看一些統(tǒng)計(jì)數(shù)據(jù)。

02:56

The tonsils are the two lumps in the back of your throat. They can be removed surgically, and that's called a tonsillectomy. This chart shows the operation rate of tonsillectomies in Norway in different regions. What might strike you is that there is twice the chance that your kid -- because this is for children -- will get a tonsillectomy in Finnmark than in Trondheim. The indications in both regions are the same. There should be no difference, but there is.

扁桃體是 在你喉嚨后面的兩個(gè)腫塊。 它們可以通過(guò)手術(shù)切除， 即扁桃體切除手術(shù)。 這個(gè)兒童數(shù)據(jù)表展示了 在挪威不同地區(qū) 進(jìn)行扁桃體手術(shù)的比例。 可能會(huì)嚇到你的是， 在芬馬克郡的孩子 需要做扁桃體切除手術(shù)的幾率是 特隆赫姆的孩子的兩倍。 在這兩個(gè)地方 患病的跡象是相同的。 所以不應(yīng)該有區(qū)別，但是現(xiàn)在有。

03:27

Here's another chart. The meniscus helps stabilize the knee and can be torn or fragmented acutely, topically during sports like soccer. What you see here is the operation rate for this condition. And you see that the operation rate in M?re og Romsdal is five times the operation rate in Stavanger. Five times. How can this be? Did the soccer players in M?re og Romsdal play more dirty than elsewhere in the country?

這是另一個(gè)表。 半月板有助于穩(wěn)定膝蓋， 但是容易被撕裂或發(fā)生急性碎裂， 特別是在像足球這種運(yùn)動(dòng)過(guò)程中。 你們會(huì)看見(jiàn)的是 這種情況下的手術(shù)比例。 在默勒市的比例 是在斯塔萬(wàn)格市的五倍。 五倍。 為什么會(huì)這樣？ 是在默勒的足球運(yùn)動(dòng)員 比國(guó)家其它地方玩得更野蠻嗎？

03:55

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

03:57

Probably not. I added some information now. What you see now is the procedures performed in public hospitals, in light blue, the ones in private clinics are light green. There is a lot of activity in the private clinics in M?re og Romsdal, isn't there? What does this indicate? A possible economic motivation to treat the patients. And there's more.

可能不是。 我現(xiàn)在加入一些信息。 現(xiàn)在你們看見(jiàn)的 淺藍(lán)色的是在公立醫(yī)院 執(zhí)行的治療程序， 在私人診所的是淺綠色的。 在默勒的私人診所治療記錄 有很多，對(duì)嗎？ 這表明了什么？ 原因可能是治療病人的經(jīng)濟(jì)動(dòng)機(jī)。 不僅如此。

04:24

Recent research has shown that the difference of treatment effect between regular physical therapy and operations for the knee -- there is no difference. Meaning that most of the procedures performed on the chart I've just shown could have been avoided, even in Stavanger. So what am I trying to tell you here? Even though most indications for treatments in the world are standardized, there is a lot of unnecessary variation of treatment decisions, especially in the Western world. Some people are not getting the treatment that they need, but an even greater portion of you are being overtreated.

最近的研究展示了常規(guī)的物理治療 和膝蓋手術(shù)的治療效果 并沒(méi)有不同。 意思是在這個(gè)我剛展示的圖表中， 大部分被執(zhí)行的手術(shù) 是本可以被避免的， 甚至是在斯塔萬(wàn)格。 所以我在試圖告訴你們什么呢？ 盡管世界上大部分的治療指示 已經(jīng)標(biāo)準(zhǔn)化了， 但是有很多是沒(méi)必要的 治療手段的變形， 特別是在西方國(guó)家。 一些人沒(méi)有得到他們需要的治療， 而你們當(dāng)中很多人 在被過(guò)度治療。

05:09

"Doctor, is this really necessary?" I've only heard that question once in my career. My colleagues say they never heard these words from a patient. And to turn it the other way around, how often do you think you'll get a "no" from a doctor if you ask such a question? Researchers have investigated this, and they come up with about the same "no" rate wherever they go. And that is 30 percent. Meaning, three out of 10 times, your doctor prescribes or suggests something that is completely unnecessary. And you know what they claim the reason for this is? Patient pressure. In other words, you. You want something to be done.

“醫(yī)生，這個(gè)手術(shù)真的必要嗎？” 我在我的職業(yè)生涯中 只聽(tīng)見(jiàn)過(guò)一次這個(gè)問(wèn)題。 我的同事們說(shuō)他們從未 聽(tīng)過(guò)病人這樣問(wèn)。 換一種方式說(shuō)， 如果你問(wèn)這種問(wèn)題， 你們覺(jué)得有幾次 會(huì)聽(tīng)見(jiàn)一個(gè)醫(yī)生說(shuō)”沒(méi)必要“？ 調(diào)查人員對(duì)此進(jìn)行了調(diào)查， 他們得到了不論在哪里 都大概相同的比例。 是30%。 意思是，10 次里有 3 次 你的醫(yī)生會(huì)給你開(kāi)出或者建議 完全沒(méi)必要的東西。 你們知道他們聲稱的原因是什么？ 患者給的壓力。 換句話說(shuō)，是你們。 你們希望我們一定要做點(diǎn)什么。

05:59

A friend of mine came to me for medical advice. This is a sporty guy, he does a lot of cross-country skiing in the winter time, he runs in the summer time. And this time, he'd gotten a bad back ache whenever he went jogging. So much that he had to stop doing it. I did an examination, I questioned him thoroughly, and what I found out is that he probably had a degenerated disc in the lower part of his spine. Whenever it got strained, it hurt. He'd already taken up swimming instead of jogging, there was really nothing to do, so I told him, "You need to be more selective when it comes to training. Some activities are good for you, some are not." His reply was, "I want an MRI of my back." "Why do you want an MRI?" "I can get it for free through my insurance at work." "Come on," I said -- he was also, after all, my friend. "That's not the real reason." "Well, I think it's going to be good to see how bad it looks back there." "When did you start interpreting MRI scans?" I said.

我的一個(gè)朋友曾經(jīng)來(lái)找我 咨詢醫(yī)療方面的建議。 他是一個(gè)愛(ài)運(yùn)動(dòng)的人。 他在冬天經(jīng)常穿梭在 不同國(guó)家進(jìn)行越野滑雪， 夏天跑步。 這次，他在跑步時(shí) 感覺(jué)到了嚴(yán)重的背疼。 疼得他不能再跑步。 我做了一個(gè)檢查， 全面的對(duì)他進(jìn)行問(wèn)詢， 我發(fā)現(xiàn)很可能在他的脊椎下半部分 有椎間盤(pán)退變。 每次收緊的時(shí)候，都會(huì)疼痛。 他已經(jīng)接受用游泳代替慢跑， 實(shí)際上沒(méi)有什么可以做的， 所以我告訴他： ”你在訓(xùn)練的時(shí)候， 必須有選擇性的進(jìn)行。 一些活動(dòng)對(duì)你有好處， 另一些沒(méi)有。” 他的回答是， “我想做背部的核磁共振成像?！?“為什么你想做這個(gè)?” “我可以用公司保險(xiǎn)報(bào)銷這個(gè)花費(fèi)?！?“拜托，”我說(shuō) —— 畢竟，他是我的朋友。 ”那不是真正的原因。” “哦，我覺(jué)得能看一下 我的后背到底多糟糕比較好?！?“你什么時(shí)候開(kāi)始能看懂 核磁共振掃描了？”我說(shuō)。

07:06

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

07:08

"Trust me on this. You're not going to need the scan." "Well," he said, and after a while, he continued, "It could be cancer."

“這件事你要相信我。 你不需要這個(gè)掃描?！?”唔，”他說(shuō)， 過(guò)了一會(huì)兒，他繼續(xù)說(shuō)， “可能是癌癥?！?/p>

07:18

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

07:20

He got the scan, obviously. And through his insurance at work, he got to see one of my colleagues at work, telling him about the degenerated disc, that there was nothing to do, and that he should keep on swimming and quit the jogging. After a while, I met him again and he said, "At least now I know what this is."

很明顯，他還是做了掃描。 通過(guò)他們公司的保險(xiǎn)計(jì)劃， 他找了我的一個(gè)同事， 告訴他椎間盤(pán)退化的事， 還是沒(méi)什么其它可以做的， 他應(yīng)該繼續(xù)游泳，停止慢跑。 過(guò)了一段時(shí)間， 我又遇見(jiàn)了他， 他說(shuō)：“至少我現(xiàn)在知道 是怎么回事了?！?/p>

07:41

But let me ask you a question. What if all of you in this room with the same symptoms had an MRI? And what if all the people in Norway had an MRI due to occasional back pain? The waiting list for an MRI would quadruple, maybe even more. And you would all take the spot on that list from someone who really had cancer. So a good doctor sometimes says no, but the sensible patient also turns down, sometimes, an opportunity to get diagnosed or treated.

但是讓我問(wèn)你們一個(gè)問(wèn)題。 如果這個(gè)房間里有同樣癥狀的人 都來(lái)做核磁共振成像呢？ 如果挪威所有人都因?yàn)榕紶柕谋程?去做核磁共振成像呢？ 核磁共振成像的排隊(duì)人數(shù) 會(huì)增至四倍，甚至更多。 而你們會(huì)占用了名單上那些 真的有癌癥的人的名額。 所以一個(gè)好的醫(yī)生有時(shí)候會(huì)說(shuō)不， 但敏感的病人有時(shí)候也會(huì)拒絕掉 一個(gè)被診斷和治療的機(jī)會(huì)。

08:17

"Doctor, is this really necessary?" I know this can be a difficult question to ask. In fact, if you go back 50 years, this was even considered rude.

醫(yī)生，這個(gè)真的必要嗎？” 我知道這是一個(gè) 很難啟齒的問(wèn)題。 實(shí)際上，如果倒退 50 年， 這甚至?xí)徽J(rèn)為粗魯。

08:29

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

08:30

If the doctor had decided what to do with you, that's what you did. A colleague of mine, now a general practitioner, was sent away to a tuberculosis sanatorium as a little girl, for six months. It was a terrible trauma for her. She later found out, as a grown-up, that her tests on tuberculosis had been negative all along. The doctor had sent her away on nothing but wrong suspicion. No one had dared or even considered confronting him about it. Not even her parents.

如果醫(yī)生已經(jīng)決定如何治療你， 你就要遵醫(yī)囑。 我的一個(gè)同事， 現(xiàn)在是一個(gè)全科醫(yī)生， 在還是個(gè)小女孩的時(shí)候 曾經(jīng)被送到肺結(jié)核療養(yǎng)院 六個(gè)月。 對(duì)她來(lái)說(shuō)是可怕的創(chuàng)傷。 在她成年后發(fā)現(xiàn)， 她的肺結(jié)核測(cè)試結(jié)果 一直都是陰性的。 醫(yī)生只是基于錯(cuò)誤的懷疑 就送她去了療養(yǎng)院。 沒(méi)有人敢或者甚至想過(guò) 去反抗他的做法。 甚至她的父母都沒(méi)有。

09:04

Today, the Norwegian health minister talks about the patient health care service. The patient is supposed to get advice from the doctor about what to do. This is great progress. But it also puts more responsibility on you. You need to get in the front seat with your doctor and start sharing decisions on where to go.

如今，挪威衛(wèi)生部長(zhǎng) 談及患者的醫(yī)療保健服務(wù)。 患者應(yīng)該從醫(yī)生那 得到治療建議。 這是巨大的進(jìn)步。 但是這同樣給了你們 更多的責(zé)任。 你們需要坐在醫(yī)生面前 一起討論接下來(lái)的決定。

09:28

So, the next time you're in a doctor's office, I want you to ask, "Doctor, is this really necessary?" And in my female patient's case, the answer would be no, but an operation could also be justified.

所以，下一次 當(dāng)你在醫(yī)生辦公室里， 我希望你們可以問(wèn)， “醫(yī)生，這個(gè)真的必要嗎？” 在我那個(gè)女性患者的案例中， 答案是不， 但是有的手術(shù)也有可能是合理的。

09:44

"So doctors, what are the risks attached to this operation?" Well, five to ten percent of patients will have worsening of pain symptoms. One to two percent of patients will have an infection in the wound or even a rehemorrhage that might end up in a re-operation. 0.5 percent of patients also experience permanent hoarseness and a few, but still a few, will experience reduced function in the arms or even legs.

所以醫(yī)生， 這個(gè)手術(shù)有哪些風(fēng)險(xiǎn)？” 5 - 10% 的患者疼痛癥狀會(huì)加重。 1-2% 的患者 會(huì)傷口感染或甚至是出血 這就需要第二次的手術(shù)。 0.5% 的患者也會(huì)經(jīng)歷 永久性的聲音嘶啞， 還有一些 手臂或者腿功能會(huì)衰減。

10:15

"Doctor, are there other options?" Yes, rest and physical therapy over some time might get you perfectly well.

醫(yī)生，有其他的選擇嗎？” 是的，一段時(shí)間的休息和物理治療 可能會(huì)讓你完全恢復(fù)。

10:25

"And what happens if I don't do anything?" It's not recommended, but even then, there's a slight chance that you will get well. Four questions. Simple questions. Consider them your new toolbox to help us. Is this really necessary? What are the risks? Are there other options? And what happens if I don't do anything? Ask them when your doctor wants to send you to an MRI, when he prescribes antibiotics or suggests an operation.

如果我什么都不做會(huì)怎么樣？” 不建議這樣， 但是盡管那樣， 也有很小的可能你會(huì)康復(fù)。 四個(gè)問(wèn)題。 簡(jiǎn)單的問(wèn)題。 把它們當(dāng)作你的新工具箱 來(lái)幫助我們。 “這真的必要嗎？” “有什么風(fēng)險(xiǎn)？” “有沒(méi)有其它選擇？” “如果我什么都不做會(huì)怎么樣？” 當(dāng)醫(yī)生讓你做核磁共振成像時(shí) 要問(wèn)醫(yī)生， 還有當(dāng)他給你開(kāi)抗生素 或者建議手術(shù)時(shí)也要問(wèn)。

10:59

What we know from research is that one out of five of you, 20 percent, will change your opinion on what to do. And by doing that, you will not only have made your life a whole lot easier, and probably even better, but the whole health care sector will have benefited from your decision.

從研究中我們知道 5 個(gè)人中有 1 個(gè)， 也就是 20%， 在問(wèn)了之后 會(huì)改變你們的想法。 做到這樣，你不僅會(huì)讓你的生活 變得更容易，甚至更好， 而且會(huì)讓整個(gè)醫(yī)療保健部門(mén) 受益于你的決定。

11:20

Thank you.

（謝謝大家）

11:21

(Applause)

（掌聲）